A compilation of information about Solresol, the universal musical language

Suggestions about gender, number, stress, and other things

Discuss the grammar of Solresol, including proposed changes.
Shanoxilt's post about the necessity of audiovisual isomorphism is partly what brought these issues to mind.

Currently, in written/spoken Solresol, the plural number is indicated by doubling the length of the final consonant. Ex.:

domíladdo - speakers

The feminine gender is indicated by doubling the length of the last syllable. Ex:

domíladoo - female speaker

How do we represent this in other formats? Stress shouldn't be difficult to represent; all it requires is a second layer of value, such as making the colors fifty percent darker, or using rhythm in music. But pluralization and feminine would be much harder to represent.

Thus, I propose we abandon the plural number and feminine gender. Neither contribute significantly to the language. Many languages work just fine without grammatical number. We have words to indicate sex/gender now (the words for Mr./Mrs.), and the current method of "specifying femininity as an unusual condition," as in Esperanto, has sexist implications. It also isn't very symmetrical (if you get what I mean by that?). Abandoning those two aspects would greatly improve the compatibility of Solresol with all types of communication.

I also have one minor concern about the stress accents system. Judging by this:

domilado - to speak
dómilado - speech
domílado - speaker
domiládo - verbal
domiladó - verbally

Someone who uses a word as a noun must put equal emphasis on every syllable. Is that practical? What if we removed the adjective/adverb distinction (which many languages also lack) and just make nouns have a specific stress pattern?

And, lastly, I have an idea that I proposed in another thread - what if we stopped using "la" as "the" (many, many languages get by without definite articles - and we don't have an indefinite one, anyways) and began using it as a conjunction to combine two words into a compound word? I think that would be very useful.

I know a lot of this is straying from Sudre's vision. If nobody likes any of these ideas, I'm fine with that. I have no intentions of starting a Solresol schism and making my own reforms.
I've actually got another suggestion, too. Right now, if I am not mistaken, there are no triple combinations - "dododo," "solsolsol," etc., right?

What if we utilized those seven three-syllable words as grammatical particles indicating part of speech? They would be placed immediately after the relevant word.

Obviously, they would be somewhat cumbersome, but they wouldn't have to be used often, as stress and context would usually make part of speech clear. But they could be very useful in certain situations, such as with two- and three-syllable words, which don't have all the stress accent possibilities of four-syllable words.

It could be like, say:

Dododo: noun
Rerere: verb
Mimimi: adjective (quality of being noun or doing verb)
Fafafa: adjective (ideal state of object)
Solsolsol: adjective/verb (passive form, describes object)
Lalala: adverb
Sisisi: noun (doer of verb)
Hi! I am fairly new to SolReSol. I'm trying to implement SolReSol in music - so would these changes be acceptable if the language were to be used based only on the tune?:
Plural - Very quick, short pause (in comparison with standard ones) before the last syllable
Feminine - Lengthening the duration of the last syllable
Adverb - Placing stress on the last syllable through a sforzando (maybe swap this with feminine instead)
Otherwise, I know I have only just arrived to this forum and lack credibility, but I somewhat agree with the idea to drop plurality and the feminine gender.

I, too, think it quite a good idea to abandon plurality and gender distinctions. It is surprising how one can get along so well without them. The Finns do quite well with one third singular pronoun (although they use another for third plural), and Japanese, as I understand, needs no special plural, as we don't in discussing some animals. I also doubt that a schism would result; I don't want one over a simplification.

I'm intrigued,too, by the suggestion about "la." While lovely, they are not indispensable, and learning their proper use is often a stumbling block to learning, especially English, the unconscious language skeleton of many who support sidosi. It would be interesting to see how this proposal could work in practice.
Hello, again,

In my second paragraph, what got left out was "It's perhaps a better use for letter than as an article. While lovely..." Sorry for the slip.
We already have multiple dialects, so I am not sure that it is wise to tinker with the language unless we wish to implement an academy to document new changes.
shanoxilt wrote:We already have multiple dialects, so I am not sure that it is wise to tinker with the language unless we wish to implement an academy to document new changes.
It's very important that you mention the idea of creating a centralized SolReSol Academy and giving the language its well-deserved third life (after Sudre's and Gajewski's efforts). Of course, this would be a gigantic step, but I think we have what it takes and I have numerous ideas of spreading SolReSol all over the world, given that people are really willing to support it.

I will create a separate thread on it later.
Phil Shary, that is a great idea! We can make a Solresol dialect mixed with Sudre's and Gajewski's version as well as modernizing it. Would be nice if we can get shanoxilt, dan, garrison, and shido to help us out with this academy. Again, this is a great idea to get started with "La Solresol Solasido."