A compilation of information about Solresol, the universal musical language

SolReSol ReMiMi (SolReSol 2.0) Proposal

Discuss the vocabulary of Solresol, including proposed changes.
Everyone who is familiar with the classical SolReSol created by Sudre knows that while it is an a priory language, it still bears a heavy burden of the nineteenth century French language and culture.

This can be seen both in its grammar and vocabulary - among the most obvious things is the lack of words for 70 and 90, so you have to use 60+10 and 4*20 respectively - even many modern French dialects do not use this anachronism.

Another one is its abundance of terms describing different political structures/titles (I don't think we need a separate word for "Minister of the Marine and Colonies" or "Grand Officer"). Also, the grammar seems too complicated for an a priori language and heavily influenced by a synthetic language speaker's thinking.

So, here is my proposal, it doesn't contain any precise details yet, it's just an idea of what can be changed in SolReSol 2.0 (working title):

1) Grammar must be simplified to the point where we do not need any additional modifiers to make a distinction between genders, singular/plural forms and parts of speech (many existing analytic and isolating languages make these distinctions on the level of lexis/word order instead of using grammar).

2) Some words should be removed - words specific to French mentality / 19th century France should be replaced by more neutral and universal concepts

3) Some five-syllable words should be added to better differentiate between almost synonymous, but still different words, and some neologisms should be implemented.

4) Finally, I think that a good idea would be to add a second alphabet - just for proper names (just like in Japanese where you have Katakana - a special script which is mostly used to transcribe foreign words). There are many ways of doing this, but I think that one of the easiest ways is by adding C#, D#, F# and G#. They will be easily recognizable and the listener/reader will immediately get the signal that another person is currently spelling a name/foreign word. Each sharp note will be an index that holds seven Latin letters/notes, for example:

C# Do = A
C# Re = B
C# Mi = C
C# Fa = D
C# Sol = E
C# La = F
C# Si = G
C# Do = H
D# Re = I
D# Mi = J
etc.

This is just my initial proposal, and these ideas are subject to change.

I know that there have been many attempts to modify SolReSol - simplify it, add and replace words, etc., but all these things need to be incorporated somewhere in order to make people aware of them.
And that's where the best part is - since I am making free software that will promote SolReSol to a wide audience, including people who are unaware of this language, this will help us to codify these changes and create a new, more accessible version of SolReSol that will be known by more than just a couple of people.
I like your system for proper names, but I wonder if it would become an issue with inflection on the colors. D# for J works when written as a musical note or played on an instrument, but when written as a color, would it become more saturated? If so, how do we then provide clues to the tone of speech? If a person is more or less angry, do we also saturate or de-saturate the colors?
I am ambivalent about this proposal. While I think the suggested changes are mostly good ones, I think we need to make it clear to new Solresol students that Solresol 2.0 is a new deviation from Sudre's, Gajewski's, or even Cherpillod's works.

I was disheartened to discover that the contemporary Volapük community no longer uses Schleyer's original but instead Arie de Jong's revised version.

This disappointment can be avoided if there are ways to signal, and perhaps switch between, which dialect one is using. But in cases of poetry, it might be best to leave it ambiguous!

If we wish to make our newest Solresol more "musical" we should read the discussion here. Also, we should do our best to reach out to any other musical language communities, if any still exist.
Many times ago I attempted to use Schleyer’s version of Volapük, but unfortunately Schleyer himself changed permanently Volapük, e. g.: ‛anüd (1880) --> nam (1882), Lusän --> Rusän (since 1889), dalön (1880—1888) --> dälön (since 1888 or 1889), primary version hadn’t jussive, etc. So Arie de Jong didn’t make many changes (and nobody except for Arie de Jong and other two or three old Volapükists had read final versions of Schleyer’s “big dictionary”). But it is very interesting, that you have interest in Volapük. Are you registered to any Volapük Internet-community?
Solresol now has different forms too (as Volapük in 19th century), but it is hard to normalize Solresol without clear plan (first of all I keep in mind a coinage of new five-syllable words).
Shido wrote:But it is very interesting, that you have interest in Volapük. Are you registered to any Volapük Internet-community?
Not yet, but I have browsed some of the grammar and dictionaries. I have a general interest in invented languages. I am currently learning Lojban, Esperanto, and Toki Pona. I also plan to learn a non-European auxiliary language; perhaps I shall settle for Lidepla or a similar creole-inspired language.
Solresol now has different forms too (as Volapük in 19th century), but it is hard to normalize Solresol without clear plan (first of all I keep in mind a coinage of new five-syllable words).
We also have to keep in mind our goals for Solresol. Will we pursue it as an international auxiliary language? Personally, I think it seems too gimmicky for that task. Perhaps we can follow the example of the Toki Pona and Klingon communities. We should focus on the fun aspects of Solresol language and culture.
Agreed, look at the Klingon Teacher's videos. I have seen his videos before and they are very informational and are very well-thought of. I wonder if anyone is willing to try doing the same thing with the videos being about Solresol and its culture.
shanoxilt wrote:Not yet, but I have browsed some of the grammar and dictionaries. I have a general interest in invented languages. I am currently learning Lojban, Esperanto, and Toki Pona.
Thank you for interesting answer!
I’m interesting in conlangs too, but unfortunately I haven’t time for many languages. I prefer more neutral, non-European examples, such as Volapük and Solresol. I try to learn and use these languages, but I must confess, that I can’t use Solresol without a vocabulary. As to Volapük, I’m a member of contemporary Volapük Academy.
shanoxilt wrote:We also have to keep in mind our goals for Solresol. Will we pursue it as an international auxiliary language? Personally, I think it seems too gimmicky for that task. Perhaps we can follow the example of the Toki Pona and Klingon communities. We should focus on the fun aspects of Solresol language and culture.
From my point of view, neither Solresol nor Volapük will become a worldwide language. But these idioms must survive.
Phil_Shary wrote:
1) Grammar must be simplified to the point where we do not need any additional modifiers to make a distinction between genders, singular/plural forms and parts of speech (many existing analytic and isolating languages make these distinctions on the level of lexis/word order instead of using grammar).
.
I don't agree, I think gender and numbers distinction doesn't make the language too complicate and are useful. Regarding parts of speech I may agree, but doing so we should have to transform the language into a gluttunous language, changing it too much so I think that for now we should just simply and standardize it. When we will have more speakrs we could talk about it.
Phil_Shary wrote: 2) Some words should be removed - words specific to French mentality / 19th century France should be replaced by more neutral and universal concepts
.
Some words that existed in 19th century france still exist today, I think it's better keep it.
Phil_Shary wrote: 3) Some five-syllable words should be added to better differentiate between almost synonymous, but still different words, and some neologisms should be implemented.
I agree.
Phil_Shary wrote: 4) Finally, I think that a good idea would be to add a second alphabet - just for proper names (just like in Japanese where you have Katakana - a special script which is mostly used to transcribe foreign words). There are many ways of doing this, but I think that one of the easiest ways is by adding C#, D#, F# and G#. They will be easily recognizable and the listener/reader will immediately get the signal that another person is currently spelling a name/foreign word. Each sharp note will be an index that holds seven Latin letters/notes, for example:

C# Do = A
C# Re = B
C# Mi = C
C# Fa = D
C# Sol = E
C# La = F
C# Si = G
C# Do = H
D# Re = I
D# Mi = J
etc.
I Totally agree, we need a separate alphabet for transliteration and proper nouns. The problems is that we should find a way that works with all the main writing/communicating methods, namely mostly stenography, colors, musical notes and both full/shortened writing.